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The truth behind v.2 banned items
Treamcaster Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:42 pm
Quoted from an old news archive on pso-world. Link
What's the point of this thread I hear you asking? Well, I want Ives, Lee or any other veteran to add further information regarding what actually happened and explain the actual drop system.
To clear up:
1*How can the online drop system be different from the offline one? In which way does the server side influence the game drops, if it does?
1.2*Those who run Schtserv server have access to the drops right? How's that done?
2*How did Schthack manage PSO DC-GC compatibility? Was it based in some leftover code that Yuji Naka could have started and left unfinished on some random packet?
3*Which are the 30 GC items that DC players weren't supposed to have??
3.1* So SEGA did *only* ban all those 30 rares or more?
Off-topic:
4*What's the relation between online V1 drop rate and V2?
According from a interview with Yuji Naka, the dreamcast was only suppost to find eventually 70 v2 rares, but the game had 100. The other 30 were suppost to be GC exclusive, the DC was also suppost to have 30 rares the GC version wouldn't, in attempt to encourage trading between the consoles.
However, Mr. Naka's wonderful dream has been shattered by the many hackers of PSO, despite the pleads from Sonic Team to cease and desist all types of cheating in PSO. The rares might not ever be unbanned thanks to the wonderful hackers of PSO. Mr. Naka also added that now the compatibility of the two systems to even play with each other looks doubtful.
On a side note, Barubary and his little gang have released their amazing stealth codes, when will they stop?
Its a sad day for the community of PSO and who do we have to thank...? Why, the cheaters of course! Thanks you guys.
What's the point of this thread I hear you asking? Well, I want Ives, Lee or any other veteran to add further information regarding what actually happened and explain the actual drop system.
To clear up:
1*How can the online drop system be different from the offline one? In which way does the server side influence the game drops, if it does?
1.2*Those who run Schtserv server have access to the drops right? How's that done?
2*How did Schthack manage PSO DC-GC compatibility? Was it based in some leftover code that Yuji Naka could have started and left unfinished on some random packet?
3*Which are the 30 GC items that DC players weren't supposed to have??
3.1* So SEGA did *only* ban all those 30 rares or more?
Off-topic:
4*What's the relation between online V1 drop rate and V2?
Treamcaster- Turbo Member
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
Aleron Ives Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:39 pm
The banned items on Sega's server were only unobtainable ones, namely ELENOR, TSUMIKIRI J-SWORD, DOUBLE CANNON, GULD MILLA, DEVIL'S TAIL, and RED RING. Other items, such as the prizes from Towards the Future, were banned until the quest was released. Sega forgot to ban some items, even though you couldn't get them, such as BLACK RING and SAFETY HEART. The story goes that Sega was going to create a quest for you to combine LAVIS BLADE and Joint Parts together to get DOUBLE CANNON, as well as to combine HANDGUN:GULD and HANDGUN:MILLA with Joint Parts to create GULD MILLA; however, once the item creation codes were created, people quickly found out all the "hidden" (unobtainable) items in the game, and thus were able to build a complete list of everything PSO had, despite many of those items being unobtainable legitly. As a result, Sega supposedly got mad, banned the unobtainable items, and never released the quest to let you get them.
It's equally possible that they were just lazy and didn't get around to it once cheating began to spread, who knows. The idea that Ver.2 and Ver.3 were originally going to be compatible and even on the same server is certainly possible; Ver.3 was originally a Dreamcast game. Sonic Team ported its development to the Gamecube once Sega decided to give up on the Dreamcast. It seems more likely that that is when Sega decided to drop any hopes of compatibility between the games. Certainly they could have done so if they had wanted, but why bother? Sega didn't even make DC and PC compatible, despite them being ostensibly identical games.
The server does nothing to the drops except relay them. The leader's client generates drops every time someone kills an enemy, and then the server sends that drop information to everyone so they see the same items. That's also why if the leader of the team is on the Dreamcast and he pipes to Pioneer 2, you can't pick up any items. The leader isn't able to sync them until he finishes loading. Could the server control the drops? Yes. Did the server control the drops on Sega? I doubt it. Since the leading client is designed to send drop information, it seems highly unlikely that Sega would have overridden that behaviour.
The compatibility between Ver.2 and 3 was done the same way as that between DC and PC. The games are similar enough that the server can translate the client's queries and responses between different versions so that they can communicate with each other. The reason compatibility is so low is because not much work was done to facilitate translation of many of the "finer" points of the game. That, and some of it simply cannot be done because factors which PSO assumes are the same between all clients like enemy HP and DFP, are not.
It's equally possible that they were just lazy and didn't get around to it once cheating began to spread, who knows. The idea that Ver.2 and Ver.3 were originally going to be compatible and even on the same server is certainly possible; Ver.3 was originally a Dreamcast game. Sonic Team ported its development to the Gamecube once Sega decided to give up on the Dreamcast. It seems more likely that that is when Sega decided to drop any hopes of compatibility between the games. Certainly they could have done so if they had wanted, but why bother? Sega didn't even make DC and PC compatible, despite them being ostensibly identical games.
The server does nothing to the drops except relay them. The leader's client generates drops every time someone kills an enemy, and then the server sends that drop information to everyone so they see the same items. That's also why if the leader of the team is on the Dreamcast and he pipes to Pioneer 2, you can't pick up any items. The leader isn't able to sync them until he finishes loading. Could the server control the drops? Yes. Did the server control the drops on Sega? I doubt it. Since the leading client is designed to send drop information, it seems highly unlikely that Sega would have overridden that behaviour.
The compatibility between Ver.2 and 3 was done the same way as that between DC and PC. The games are similar enough that the server can translate the client's queries and responses between different versions so that they can communicate with each other. The reason compatibility is so low is because not much work was done to facilitate translation of many of the "finer" points of the game. That, and some of it simply cannot be done because factors which PSO assumes are the same between all clients like enemy HP and DFP, are not.
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Aleron Ives- Socially-Devoid Member
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
hayame Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:39 pm
I get the jiff on what Ives is saying, it's kinda like pokemon and how nintendo has unobtainable pokemon unless you go to an event of some sort to legitly obtain it.
hayame- Turbo Member
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
MuCast Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:35 pm
hayame wrote:I get the jiff on what Ives is saying, it's kinda like pokemon and how nintendo has unobtainable pokemon unless you go to an event of some sort to legitly obtain it.
I was so pro at Pokemon back when the first versions came out I got mew on mine by going to one of those xD was so young then...
Still have all 151 pokemon on that cartridge somewhere in my house, even got both of the glitched ones too
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
Aleron Ives Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:41 pm
lol, that's "gist".hayame wrote:I get the jiff on what Ives is saying
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Aleron Ives- Socially-Devoid Member
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
hayame Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:48 pm
Aleron Ives wrote:lol, that's "gist".hayame wrote:I get the jiff on what Ives is saying
I say Jiff, cuz im cool like that with my notyet80ness
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
ducky Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:45 pm
moms like you choose jiff... choose JIFF!
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
MuCast Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:11 pm
ducky wrote:moms like you choose jiff... choose JIFF!
Omg a jar of jiff
sitting on a nearby cliff
some guy with yiff, guarding the cliff,
They walked somewhat stiff, as they steered themselves towards the cliff
and with a yiff, fell rolling from the cliff.
Never to be seen again.
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ducky- Member
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
MuCast Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:22 am
ducky wrote:... I like peanut butter
CANCELED
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
Treamcaster Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:22 pm
- Spoiler:
- You guys will probably get mad at me and say something like "hey TC, wtf with you man? you're an a-hole, I'm not gonna help you with the ban anymore".
Well anyways, I'm tired of seeing most of the threads being constantly hijacked with useless talk. I mean, this is not a chat, this is a place where people discuss something and provide interesting information regarding a certain matter, that's why it's called a forum. So, if you have nothing special to say, just shut up and stop saying BS, for real. Don't get me wrong, I wanted to say this for quite a while but now the situation's getting worse and it's not fun anymore browsing this forum. I'm no mod, I shouldn't be saying this, it's not my job, but whatever, feel free to complain...
You're all good people, but if you want small talk, just use the off-topic section and create a thread just for that, just don't make the whole forum a mess! THANK YOU, I hope you understand and sorry if I sounded rude.
Now back on track...
Ives, I tried to search any info I could in archived old SEGA websites, even the JP ones, and I couldn't find anything related to the "v3" development being initially started on the Dreamcast. There are some beta GC screenshots showing the DC hud though, however that doesn't prove it all began in the DC and then ported to GC, right? You got any source?
Low drop rate?Sega forgot to ban some items, even though you couldn't get them, such as BLACK RING and SAFETY HEART.
And btw, there was something else I wanted to ask. Where can I find an accurate drop rate list? I hear you guys saying not to trust PSOW rates, why?
And also, you didn't answer my question regarding V1 drops, although I think I already asked this before and you told me you didn't know about it.
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
hayame Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:32 pm
Treamcaster wrote:
And btw, there was something else I wanted to ask. Where can I find an accurate drop rate list? I hear you guys saying not to trust PSOW rates, why?
Sorry about that, lol, but anyway
IIRC it's because the 1 out of whatever kills is based on how much users killed to get that item.
or so i think.
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
MuCast Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:31 pm
Treamcaster wrote:
- Spoiler:
Well anyways, I'm tired of seeing most of the threads being constantly hijacked with useless talk. I mean, this is not a chat, this is a place where people discuss something and provide interesting information regarding a certain matter, that's why it's called a forum. So, if you have nothing special to say, just shut up and stop saying BS, for real. Don't get me wrong, I wanted to say this for quite a while but now the situation's getting worse and it's not fun anymore browsing this forum. I'm no mod, I shouldn't be saying this, it's not my job, but whatever, feel free to complain...
You're all good people, but if you want small talk, just use the off-topic section and create a thread just for that, just don't make the whole forum a mess! THANK YOU, I hope you understand and sorry if I sounded rude.
Now back on track...
Ives, I tried to search any info I could in archived old SEGA websites, even the JP ones, and I couldn't find anything related to the "v3" development being initially started on the Dreamcast. There are some beta GC screenshots showing the DC hud though, however that doesn't prove it all began in the DC and then ported to GC, right? You got any source?Low drop rate?Sega forgot to ban some items, even though you couldn't get them, such as BLACK RING and SAFETY HEART.
And btw, there was something else I wanted to ask. Where can I find an accurate drop rate list? I hear you guys saying not to trust PSOW rates, why?
And also, you didn't answer my question regarding V1 drops, although I think I already asked this before and you told me you didn't know about it.
noted.
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
Aleron Ives Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:57 pm
There are no sources for any of these theories. Even that PSO-W interview is sourceless now that the link to the original interview has long since expired.Treamcaster wrote:Now back on track...
Ives, I tried to search any info I could in archived old SEGA websites, even the JP ones, and I couldn't find anything related to the "v3" development being initially started on the Dreamcast. There are some beta GC screenshots showing the DC hud though, however that doesn't prove it all began in the DC and then ported to GC, right? You got any source?
No. The items are not in the charts in the first place. When I say you couldn't get them, I mean you couldn't get them.Treamcaster wrote:Low drop rate?Sega forgot to ban some items, even though you couldn't get them, such as BLACK RING and SAFETY HEART.
There aren't any.Treamcaster wrote:And btw, there was something else I wanted to ask. Where can I find an accurate drop rate list?
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
Lee Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
I could probably auto calculate the drops if i wanted to just by reading the rt and hard coding the pt dar's in to a program. Eventually i have to do this for an rt editor for BB anyway since the current one fails hard.
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
Moopthehedgehog Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:16 pm
Lee wrote:I could probably auto calculate the drops if i wanted to just by reading the rt and hard coding the pt dar's in to a program. Eventually i have to do this for an rt editor for BB anyway since the current one fails hard.
Would you really do that?
If so, that would be great!
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
MuCast Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:36 pm
Moopthehedgehog wrote:Lee wrote:I could probably auto calculate the drops if i wanted to just by reading the rt and hard coding the pt dar's in to a program. Eventually i have to do this for an rt editor for BB anyway since the current one fails hard.
Would you really do that?
If so, that would be great!
Yeah I agree, if it wouldn't be too much trouble that would be great
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
Aleron Ives Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:11 pm
It's not like they really mean much though, seeing as the RNG is terrible.
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Re: The truth behind v.2 banned items
EvilMag Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:38 pm
Aleron Ives wrote:It's not like they really mean much though, seeing as the RNG is terrible.
Fuck...the..Random...Number...God.
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