Pso v1 on dreamshell

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  Aleron Ives on Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:39 pm

My suspicions were correct: PSOv2 doesn't boot at all. If you try to boot it normally, you get a an error saying the game tried to perform an illegal operation and that you need to try booting from high memory. If you change the boot options, PSOv2 will either RSOD or hang on the license screen, depending on how you change the ISOLDR settings. DreamShell doesn't like games that try to swap binaries, which is probably why Sonic Adventure 2 doesn't work, either. It has similar protections to PSOv2, IIRC.

If Swat is interested in this, I could register on his forum, or he could register here. It doesn't really matter to me, but if he doesn't want to work on this specific game, there's not much point. It has unique problems, due to having more security features than most Dreamcast games.

Honestly, if he does have interest in this, his time might be better spent trying to fix the FSOD problems with CD-R copies. That would both eliminate the need to come up with fancy DreamShell boot options just for PSO, and it would let everyone play with BGM, since PSO isn't well suited for use on SD cards. There isn't any way to totally remove the stuttering which occurs when you're in an area; the game will always pause slightly every five seconds, due to the way the BGM works.

_________________
"Fear the HUnewearl."
avatar
Aleron Ives
Socially-Devoid Member
Socially-Devoid Member

Number of posts : 2113
Age : 29
Registration date : 2008-03-24

View user profile http://psopalace.funurl.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  SHADOWROD on Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:55 pm

Well I could get used to those pso v1pauses...at least on my class 10 card they happen each 7 seconds and it´s a very brief pause . You told it yourself: it´s very playable and it even get online.I even prefer the pauses then the grinding noise:D 
Ives May i ask you to put a link for pso v1 autoconnect sdiso in download section? You know a v1 player most of time plays online solo.

P.s: have you tried pso v1 with dreamshell beta 3?
avatar
SHADOWROD
Member
Member

Number of posts : 26
Registration date : 2010-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  Aleron Ives on Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:04 pm

Being unable to use multiple Techniques and the possibility of random crashes from the improper boot process are bugs that make this probably the worst way to play the game. I'm not going to make a release that is so badly dysfunctional. It's more of a novelty than anything else at this point, and only Swat can improve it.

I have only used the latest DreamShell. Old versions are not available for download, as far as I can tell. If Swat is still using the regular Utopia boot method in 4.0 RC1, I highly doubt older versions would be able to boot cleanly. He wouldn't have gone back to the inferior boot method in a newer release.

_________________
"Fear the HUnewearl."
avatar
Aleron Ives
Socially-Devoid Member
Socially-Devoid Member

Number of posts : 2113
Age : 29
Registration date : 2008-03-24

View user profile http://psopalace.funurl.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  SHADOWROD on Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:26 pm

I have playing with a FORCE for days offline and online...no crashes at all even playing with players. Anyway thank you I´ll try to make the iso myself.
avatar
SHADOWROD
Member
Member

Number of posts : 26
Registration date : 2010-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  FaceRAX on Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:42 am

Hey people. I have just read this topic, and I have been working to get PSO v2 working in a SD card 2.
I have been playing the v1 sd version and I didnt came across any bugs (Every quest completed, and very hard completed).
Anyway I just wanted to report that I managed to get to the start screen of PSO v2 on the sd iso, sadly it didnt last 2 long cuz the dc froze after trying to load a character.
At the begging it gave me a black screen but i heard the sound of the first prompt asking if you wanted 50Hz or 60, and I just pressed right on the d-pad and pressed A. It got me to the start screen. But it just frezzes every time when i try loading a character.
Any help here would be great!

FaceRAX
Member
Member

Number of posts : 10
Registration date : 2013-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  Aleron Ives on Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:13 pm

If you reached the title screen, you've already had more success than I did.

_________________
"Fear the HUnewearl."
avatar
Aleron Ives
Socially-Devoid Member
Socially-Devoid Member

Number of posts : 2113
Age : 29
Registration date : 2008-03-24

View user profile http://psopalace.funurl.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  FaceRAX on Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:04 am

I just dont understand why wont it load a character. I can do everything in the title screen, listen to the music and stuff. It just freezes when i am loading a character. I checked both Pso v1 and v2 gdi for diferences in the boot process and overwriten some of the v2 code, maybe i did something wrong... I will keep working on it, or try at least. If any of you have any suggestion i would really apreciate it.

FaceRAX
Member
Member

Number of posts : 10
Registration date : 2013-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  SHADOWROD on Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:24 am

FaceRAX wrote:I just dont understand why wont it load a character. I can do everything in the title screen, listen to the music and stuff. It just freezes when i am loading a character. I checked both Pso v1 and v2 gdi for diferences in the boot process and overwriten some of the v2 code, maybe i did something wrong... I will keep working on it, or try at least. If any of you have any suggestion i would really apreciate it.
   
   Unfortunately Mr. Ives does not care very much about pso thing on dreamshell...those bugs on dreamshell v1 are not so "nasty". In other hand I´d rather play it this way than waste my dc optical unit very soon. As for pso v2 the browser thing prevents it for loading properly as well as SONIC ADV 2. But the dreamshell creator may have a solution for it on next updates. You may be luck posting it on DCEmulation forum.
.
avatar
SHADOWROD
Member
Member

Number of posts : 26
Registration date : 2010-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  FaceRAX on Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:54 pm

I dont blame Mr Ives for not caring, there's few people that play Dreamcast games from the sd card, as there are few games that work as well as PSO v1 or Red Dod: SFP, but i agree with you, it is a really good way to preserve the gd rom optical unit but its hard to make some games to be playable there, it requires some effort tho.
Anyway i already disabled the "browser thing" as you call it (had to rewrite DP2.ini /DP_adress.jpn /sg_Dpldr.bin and 2_DP.bin) and i have adapted a new IP.bin for the game to boot properly (similar to PSO v1).
Still, the game frezzes when loading a character...
Ill try to keep you post if there is anything new.

P.S: Is SWAT still working on updates for the DS?

FaceRAX
Member
Member

Number of posts : 10
Registration date : 2013-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  SHADOWROD on Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:47 pm

Hey man I believe you are almost getting it to work properly. Keep us posted please. Regarding SWAT i think he still updates dreamshell but not very often.

Ps- Blue Stinger works very good (minus cgs) with music and decent frame rate as well as Climax Landers.
avatar
SHADOWROD
Member
Member

Number of posts : 26
Registration date : 2010-06-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  Aleron Ives on Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:02 pm

You're misrepresenting my position to say that I "don't care" about running PSO on DreamShell. If I didn't care, I wouldn't have even tried, nor would I have bought an SD card and a DC SD adapter solely for that purpose. The problem is that the game doesn't run correctly from an SD card, and I don't want to release a crippled project. The inability to even cast Resta on your teammates is unacceptable for a game that relies on cooperative online play.

@ FaceRAX

You say you "rewrote" several game binaries to get PSOv2 to load: does this mean you're familiar with SH4 assembly? If so, you should work on fixing the PSOv2 FSOD problems when it's played on a CD-R. That also spares the optical drive considerably compared to using a GD-ROM, and unlike when using an SD card, the game exhibits no other problems when played that way. Wink

The FSOD you experience when loading character data from the SD card is likely due to the same problem: Sega changed the way the game multitasks between buffering the BGM playback and buffering the loading of character data in PSOv2. Whether this was a deliberate change to thwart piracy or an accidental change due to compiling PSOv2 with a different Katana SDK than PSOv1 is unknown, but I'd bet that whatever patch DP_ADDRESS.JPN needs to load character data in DreamShell is similar to the patch it needs to not freeze on CD-Rs.

_________________
"Fear the HUnewearl."
avatar
Aleron Ives
Socially-Devoid Member
Socially-Devoid Member

Number of posts : 2113
Age : 29
Registration date : 2008-03-24

View user profile http://psopalace.funurl.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  FaceRAX on Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:15 am

Well last time i checked the last update i've seen from swat was like 1 year ago.

@ Aleron Ives

Yes, that correct Ives, i've worked for some year on hitachi division here in portugal and got some experience handling SuperH-4 architecture.
Anyway, i guess i wouldn't have much time to fix those FSOD on both CD-R and SD card and might just stick to one of them for a while.

And yes i've noticed major differences on PSO v2 buffering character data. I might have 2 ways to get it working, i just need some time try what i have in mind. I'll keep you guys posted.

P.s : Thanks for your info Ives Smile 

FaceRAX
Member
Member

Number of posts : 10
Registration date : 2013-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  Aleron Ives on Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:56 pm

In this case, nullDC can be very useful for testing. You can get quite strange results when you load a CDI of PSOv2 in nullDC, as it will sometimes mimic the behaviour of a real Dreamcast. If you load a character and then select the quest "Battle Training" in offline mode, KIREEK will load correctly in the Hunter's Guild, but when you go to Forest 1, nullDC will FSOD when trying to load ASH, just as a real Dreamcast would. Here's the catch: if you disable "DynaRec" and try again, you won't FSOD. Wink You also won't FSOD if you load a GDI of PSOv2, even if DynaRec is enabled. Neutral Even nullDC apparently treats GD-ROM games and CD-R games differently, and that is the key to fixing the problem.

If you can use a memory editor to trace the game's commands as it loads ASH's character data in Forest 1, you may be able to figure out what PSOv1 and PSOv2 do differently, as PSOv2 only freezes when you load character data in an area (not on the character selection screen, the lobby, or Pioneer 2). If you play a PSOv1 CDI with nullDC, it won't FSOD, just as PSOv1 doesn't FSOD on a real Dreamcast.

My theory has been that you FSOD in areas due to the fact that the full HUD and weapons/Mags are visible there, whereas they are not visible in the areas where FSOD from loading character data doesn't occur. I have no way to verify it, though, so I've made no progress in fixing the problem.

_________________
"Fear the HUnewearl."
avatar
Aleron Ives
Socially-Devoid Member
Socially-Devoid Member

Number of posts : 2113
Age : 29
Registration date : 2008-03-24

View user profile http://psopalace.funurl.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  FaceRAX on Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:26 pm

Yes nullDC is being really usefull to trace game commands as well as finging ways to debug the game.
Well... that is actually really interesting... if DynaRec in nullDC is disabled the game does not freeze... But something is not right there... Dynamic Recompilation shouldnt be an issue there.
I must see this in a deeper view and recompile the code generated from DRC.
The buffering priorities on PSO v2 have changed and i guess the game gives priority to the BGM instead of giving it to code variations on the party system and character loads.
This may have some implication on the online game but i cant test that i dont have my DC connected to the internet.

FaceRAX
Member
Member

Number of posts : 10
Registration date : 2013-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  Aleron Ives on Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:25 pm

Being able to test online doesn't seem to be strictly necessary, as the NPCs in the offline quests cause exactly the same problem as "real" players would online. If you can find a way to make Battle Training not freeze, the patch would likely fix online mode, too. If you did find such a patch, I could apply it to a different CD-R to try it online in a real Dreamcast. I have a feeling that the fix for this problem is something silly, like a 2-byte patch to change one opcode. Razz

As for the DynaRec problem, it is indeed very strange. I have no idea why a feature a real Dreamcast doesn't have causes the emulator to replicate a problem that a real system would have, but that's the strange nature of emulation, I guess.

Two other points of interest regarding the freezing:


  • Android characters seem to freeze less than organic ones, meaning if you load a HUcast, RAcast, or RAcaseal, you're less likely to FSOD than if you load one of the other classes. This may be due to the fact that androids have fewer textures in the PL*TEX.AFS files than the organic characters do. As such, Magnitude of Metal often works better offline than Battle Training does, because ELENOR is a RAcaseal, while ASH is a HUmar.
  • If you beat Dark Falz online and stay in the arena, eventually the BGM will stop playing (because it doesn't loop), which leaves you with silence. If you let other players join your team then, there is no BGM to buffer, and the game freezes less. If you keep trying, though, it will eventually freeze, even without BGM. If the person joining is a HUcast, RAcast, or RAcaseal, you might be able to avoid freezing, though... Mad

_________________
"Fear the HUnewearl."
avatar
Aleron Ives
Socially-Devoid Member
Socially-Devoid Member

Number of posts : 2113
Age : 29
Registration date : 2008-03-24

View user profile http://psopalace.funurl.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  FaceRAX on Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:46 am

I guess it's not that simple, i must see what readings i get for each pso on that quest to make it work and making the game not to freeze.
Why do you thing the textures are a problem? You have any evidence aside from the androids have more textures than the other ones?
So you think that with out BGM the game would actually freeze less?

FaceRAX
Member
Member

Number of posts : 10
Registration date : 2013-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  Aleron Ives on Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:26 pm

Those are just some observations that I've made. I don't know if they are relevant or coincidental. The game does freeze less if you join when there is no BGM, but it can still freeze, while Ver.1 doesn't, so the problem is probably related to the timing of how the laser switches between reading files, and since including BGM in the mix adds much more complex timing, it makes the game freeze more often.

This is further evidenced by the fact that copying the GD-ROM's terrible alphabetical sort order causes less freezing than using an optimal sort order to decrease loading times. The fact that the SD card has no laser seeking at all and thus essentially can switch between files with zero latency is probably why even the character selection screen freezes on the SD card: Ver.2 requires specific timing that only occurs when using the GD-ROM. If you could patch it to not care about timing (the way Ver.1 apparently doesn't), it might fix the problem.

In theory, because the Ver.1 and Ver.2 binaries share most of the same code, if you could find the portion of the binary responsible for loading character data in both versions, you could see the way it's done differently and port the Ver.1 loading method into Ver.2. The trouble is finding the relevant code in a 4 MiB file. Mad

_________________
"Fear the HUnewearl."
avatar
Aleron Ives
Socially-Devoid Member
Socially-Devoid Member

Number of posts : 2113
Age : 29
Registration date : 2008-03-24

View user profile http://psopalace.funurl.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  FaceRAX on Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:20 pm

Sorry for taking too long to post this time but I have been quite busy, anyway, you were right, timing is actualy very essential in PSO V2 and i've been working on a fix for that and just got past the character loading screen Very Happy 
After that the game froze when there is a BGM change, for exemple when i try to get of the hunters gild. I fixed that 2 so i can do everything in pionner 2, it wasnt so difficult.
I noticed that loading time from the sd card a quite less from PSO V1 so im actualy happy about it Very Happy
The thing is that i cant access other areas than pionner 2 without freezing the game, the game freezes on the loading screen and I havent figured that out...yet.
So yeah i might just be looking on the CD-R version of PSO V2 soon. It actually would be quite nice if your modified PSO V2 could be made to work on SD card Very Happy

FaceRAX
Member
Member

Number of posts : 10
Registration date : 2013-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  Aleron Ives on Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:20 pm

That's intriguing news indeed. How many bytes in the binary did you need to patch? Did you need to add anything, or did you just overwrite some existing values? Did you use anything from PSOv1 as a reference, since PSOv1 doesn't care about timing?

_________________
"Fear the HUnewearl."
avatar
Aleron Ives
Socially-Devoid Member
Socially-Devoid Member

Number of posts : 2113
Age : 29
Registration date : 2008-03-24

View user profile http://psopalace.funurl.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  FaceRAX on Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:36 pm

About 3,5Mb patch, i used some pso v1 data as reference. I did both, i overwrited some of the values and added some to it to avoid data corruption.
About the timing thing it was quite easy to bypass that, but there was no PSO v1 data to help me patch the thing. What i needed from pso v1 was the loading priorities in it. It worked but i must pach other area loading priorities.
Anyway I still need to figure out why does the game freezes when changing areas, BGM had a lot to do with V2 problems by now maybe its also a BGM problem this time?

FaceRAX
Member
Member

Number of posts : 10
Registration date : 2013-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  Aleron Ives on Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:06 pm

I hope you mean 4 KB, because if you had to patch almost 4 MB, that would mean you replaced the entire binary. Question Surely the data regarding timing and loading priorities isn't that large, as it's only one part of the game. Razz

I don't know why the game would freeze on loading screens; although real Dreamcasts do that from time to time, nullDC does not, so it seems to be related to disc read errors. I did at one point notice that PSO would access VALENTINE.ADX when on loading screens (according to the LBAs reported by nullDC), which didn't make any sense to me, so I assumed it was a nullDC bug.

If you feel like sending me any of the offsets and patches, I could start testing with nullDC and CD-Rs to see if it fixes the freezing problem there, even if the SDISO version doesn't work yet.

I am curious, though: from what you've seen, is PSOv2 programmed specifically to require GD-ROM timing as a copy-protection scheme, or is it just a random change that Sega made when compiling PSOv2 with a different Katana SDK than they used to make PSOv1? If the timing is just set to require a GD-ROM, you could theoretically make a smaller patch that would either change the timing requirements to work with CD-R or with a wider margin of error, and that might fix CD-Rs without requiring the larger patch necessary to enable SDISO functionality.

_________________
"Fear the HUnewearl."
avatar
Aleron Ives
Socially-Devoid Member
Socially-Devoid Member

Number of posts : 2113
Age : 29
Registration date : 2008-03-24

View user profile http://psopalace.funurl.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  FaceRAX on Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:50 am

No, i really mean 4MB, actually around 3.7MB including overwriten data and that I had to make new binaries too. Something i notice  that was quite strage is that 1st read bin required a IP binary to function properly, the thing is that there isnt any ip binary, so i hat to make one almost from scratch, not that much of a code tho, about 40Kb.
Thats the problem, that data might not be in just one file as i first thought...
It doesnt make much sense to me either, but i'll into those adx files.
I'll try to send them when i can.
Actually thats correct, psov2 is disigned to work with a especific timing from gd rom, ill keep you posted

FaceRAX
Member
Member

Number of posts : 10
Registration date : 2013-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  Aleron Ives on Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:49 pm

FaceRAX wrote:No, i really mean 4MB, actually around 3.7MB including overwriten data and that I had to make new binaries too.
I still don't understand why you replaced the entire thing instead of only the sections that needed changing. If the new sections are too big to fit without altering the offsets, you could offload the extra code into other sections of the binary. There is some unused debug/license text that you can overwrite without hurting anything. How many bytes is the code for the GD-ROM timing and the loading priorities? I'm assuming it's spread out in multiple locations in the binary, but it should be < 10% of the total size, I would think...

FaceRAX wrote:Something i notice that was quite strage is that 1st read bin required a IP binary to function properly, the thing is that there isnt any ip binary
The IP.bin is the first 32768 bytes of the ISO (the boot sector). Some games include it in the filesystem, but PSO doesn't. The IP.bin requirement is also why PSOv1 doesn't work properly in DreamShell. PSO expects the Dreamcast hardware to be in the exact "clean" state after booting and executing IP.bin. If you have other programs in memory first, such as the Utopia boot disc or DreamShell, those programs must erase themselves from RAM and reset the registers before trying to execute PSO, or the game won't work correctly.

FaceRAX wrote:Thats the problem, that data might not be in just one file as i first thought...
PSO copies parts of itself into the memory space used by IP.bin after the game loads, but the IP.bin used by PSO is the same as is used by other games. PSO is just dumb/paranoid and doesn't work unless the Dreamcast hardware is in the exact state that IP.bin would normally leave it in after running the bootstraps. Neither DreamShell nor Utopia boot cleanly, which breaks PSO.

FaceRAX wrote:Actually thats correct, psov2 is disigned to work with a especific timing from gd rom
Since your project will hopefully provide solutions for both CD-R and SDISO, could you make a smaller patch to adjust the game to expect CD-R timing and thus not freeze anymore?

_________________
"Fear the HUnewearl."
avatar
Aleron Ives
Socially-Devoid Member
Socially-Devoid Member

Number of posts : 2113
Age : 29
Registration date : 2008-03-24

View user profile http://psopalace.funurl.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  FaceRAX on Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:47 pm

Binary files are not that simple to patch, you cant only "patch what needs change" its all intercaladed and can easily trigger data corruption.

Yeah i know, but right now that issue is patched. Very Happy

Yes i can, but ill try to focus right now on SD version and after its all done i will start to work on CD version and what i learned from SD version might come in handy Smile

SD version is almost but almost done, like 99% Very Happy I got every quest working on V2 and made some adjustments so that Rafoie and Resta would actually work properly (it was a timing issue). Maybe after Christmas I'll start uploading the SD version. Is there anywhere you would recommend me to upload the game?

FaceRAX
Member
Member

Number of posts : 10
Registration date : 2013-11-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  Aleron Ives on Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:00 pm

You can patch binaries if the changes are <= the size of the original data, but if they're larger, then it's definitely more difficult to do without ruining the offsets.

I don't understand how the Rafoie and Resta problems could be related to timing, because even a GD-ROM will exhibit those problems if you boot it with Utopia, and CD-R copies don't suffer from them.

DCISOZone/TheISOZone has a section dedicated to SDISO games, but it doesn't offer any hosting. I prefer to use torrents, as sites like MegaUpload and MediaFire often delete files that aren't downloaded for 30 days and also have size restrictions and speed limits. The most popular hosting site changes every few months as old ones get taken down by the FBI and new ones open to replace them. No matter which one you choose, you'll be forced to re-upload your file over and over each time it disappears. Sad

_________________
"Fear the HUnewearl."
avatar
Aleron Ives
Socially-Devoid Member
Socially-Devoid Member

Number of posts : 2113
Age : 29
Registration date : 2008-03-24

View user profile http://psopalace.funurl.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Pso v1 on dreamshell

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum