Server Drop Chart

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Server Drop Chart

Post  Aleron Ives on Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:59 am

I suppose this topic could go in any number of forums, since it applies to all versions, the server, and game development... so I'll just pick an area and go with it. Laughing It's wall of text time, folks! Twisted Evil

I have come up with a tentative chart to use on Altimira for the server-side drop system, which will allow for new rates (without client modifications) and for rares to drop in quests for the first time. Of course, using the server-side drops will be optional, and once the system is finished, it will probably be enabled through a prompt to choose client or server drops when creating a team.

First, I will share the development process behind creating this chart. I started with the EP chart and moved a few items around, after which I decided to do a more drastic revision to Sega's drop system than I did with the EP. Most items on Ver.2 are obtainable by either all IDs or half of them, but Sega made each enemy drop the same thing for the IDs capable of getting the same items. This made picking an ID relatively unimportant, since each ID was pretty much the same (not that you'd find anything with Sega's rates on most items, but that's a separate problem). I wanted different IDs to have different strengths and weaknesses, but I didn't want to go as far as Sega did in GC, where most items are exclusive to 1-3 IDs, which forces you to either have 10 characters or trade to get what you want.

As a compromise, I decided to keep a few items available on all IDs and make the rest available on either A (Viridia, Skyly, Purplenum, Redria, Yellowboze) or B (Greennill, Bluefull, Pinkal, Oran, Whitill) IDs, and then I scrambled which enemy drops each item across each ID. The result is that with the exception of enemy parts and Gulgus and Barble, which drop Red Saber and Red Handgun respectively for all IDs (as basic equipment), every enemy in the game drops a different item for each ID. All A and B IDs consequently have access to the same items, but the relative difficulty behind finding each item varies depending on the enemy and rate used on that ID. I didn't scramble the box drops, since boxes don't (generally) put up much of a fight, so it doesn't really matter which boxes drop what.

Drops are also skewed by ID attributes. After a conversation with our resident Japanese player (Wild Norakuro appeared!), I decided to set the rates based on the idea that an ID that is good at finding a particular type of item will have that item type drop on common enemies (Bartle, Arlan, Claw, etc.) with harder rates, while items that the ID is bad at finding will drop on uncommon enemies (Hildelt, Nano Dragon, Baranz, etc.) with easier rates. For example, Oran finds Daggers frequently and Rods infrequently, so it has one of the best Lavis Blade and one of the worst Psycho Wand drops. Since enemies that appear frequently give you more chances to find their drops, so this seemed like the best strategy to adopt.

After scrambling the items available to each ID to make sure that each enemy would drop something different across all IDs, I went through and set the rates for everything, making multiple passes of rate refinement as I filled in the slots. Once everything was set, I then also compared the rates with those in the EP to gauge how realistic they were, and then I made further adjustments.

Because server-side drops will be available in quests, the rates in this chart are 1.5 - 5x more difficult than those in the EP, depending on the enemy, the relative rarity of the item, and the strengths of the ID in question. Enemies that appear far more often in quests than in the free maps have rates significantly inflated from those in the EP, while enemies that appear with equal frequency have less inflation.

Setting the rates was much easier this time, since I didn't have to do much in-game testing. I didn't have much information about how the drop system worked when designing the EP, so all I could do was pick rate values based on my in-game experience of how easy certain items were to find and the rates Sega used on them, do a test run with similar values, and then adjust the values again if items dropped too much or not enough. Thanks to Lee's rate calculator, I was actually able to calcuate the real rates this time (and find out what rates I actually set in the EP for the first time), which streamlined the process. As such, the rates are public this time, since I now know what they are.

The following table is the result of 33 hours of staring at a spreadsheet while deciding what should drop where and tweaking rates up and down. This is not necessarily the final chart that I will use (especially if there's a glaring error I missed), but I've refined it enough to be pretty satisfied with the results at this point and to open the beta chart for public comment.

Finally, I do not know when this might actually get added, since BlueCrab isn't working on Sylverant at present. Although he had already planned to take a break during the summer to work on his thesis and other projects, the recent negativity directed at him from holier-than-thou legits made him want to work on the server even less. As a result, the implementation of the server-side drop system is presently stalled. If you support the work that goes on at this site that is made possible by his work on the server, you might want to send BlueCrab a PM to express your support for his efforts. Maybe some positive feedback will encourage him to keep implementing new features.

To view the new chart, click here.

Note 1:

The caveat to letting quests drop rares is that certain drops will be disabled. Hildetorrs in Prospective Horizons and Frantic Fauna will not drop rares (duh), and bosses in Towards the Future won't drop them either (to prevent BB-style quest spamming). Those are the only three exceptions that I have thought of so far, and the rates are designed with that in mind. No, it won't be possible to spam TTF to get stuff from the Sil Dragon, and I'm not going to apologize for it. Cool

Note 2:

I do not know what kind of chart will be implemented on Iselia or Vega; they could potentially also use this one, have custom charts of their own, or implement Sega's charts. This topic currently represents only what I'm thinking of doing on Altimira.

Note 3:

For comparison, Sega's rate for Red Handgun (Barble) was 1/61, Red Saber (Gulgus) was 1/77, Imperial Pick (Merlan) was 1/45, and Summit Moon (Canabin) was 1/81.

Note 4:

Another potential benefit of server-side drops is that it is possible to have server events give boosted rates for certain periods of time. BB rates often receive 2, 3, and even 4x boosts, because BB has a high population with rates that are pretty bad on many items. Since this chart is designed with the knowledge that few people play Ver.2 these days and those that do play it don't have that much time, the rates are already configured to let our limited population obtain what the game has to offer. As with the EP, I again took the stance that items in the game exist to be used, and rather than striving for months or years to find something, it is better to be able to get the game's items sooner and instead strive to find them again with better percentages, as is the case with common items like Red Handgun.

As such, these rates would only support small boosts during events. A month-long event like Halloween or Christmas would probably warrant a 1.25x boost, while a two-week event would receive a 1.5x boost. A 2x boost would probably only be warranted for periods of one week or less, since it would be a significant bonus.

Note 5:

As an added bonus, each ID also gets one special drop of a weapon that is normally obtained from a quest. All IDs will still be able to get the weapons from quests normally, but each ID has the ability to get higher percentages than the quests allow by finding its bonus weapon drop. Bonus weapons are assigned to somewhat match each ID's best weapon type. If you're too lazy to search the chart (Why are you reading this topic, then? Mad), the bonuses are:


  • Viridia: Berdysh
  • Greennill: Panther's Claw
  • Bluefull: Madam's Parasol
  • Skyly: Ano Rifle
  • Purplenum: Crazy Tune
  • Pinkal: Plantain Huge Fan
  • Redria: Flight Cutter
  • Oran: Wok of Akiko's Shop
  • Yellowboze: Yamigarasu
  • Whitill: Flight Fan

Happy reading? bounce

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Re: Server Drop Chart

Post  hayame on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:19 pm

yay

edit: Sad
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Re: Server Drop Chart

Post  mahkbooks on Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:03 am

Would the leader of the group then determine the server side drops, or would the drop be determined by whoever killed the monster? Right now, client-based drops are determined by the leader, right?

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Re: Server Drop Chart

Post  Aleron Ives on Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:08 pm

I hadn't thought about it, but it could be done either way. I assume it will be handled the same way as the client drops and let the leader's ID determine which table gets used.

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Re: Server Drop Chart

Post  mahkbooks on Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:26 pm

Would the drops be different for Ultimate mode vs Ludicrous mode?

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Re: Server Drop Chart

Post  Aleron Ives on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:11 pm

No. The server doesn't know which one you're using. Of course, there's still some merit to using the client drops, especially if you want to farm things like Red Handgun and Imperial Pick, which have worse rates on the server. You also still need the EP if you want the Ver.1 rares to be useful. You could find a Lavis Cannon or Spread Needle in regular Ultimate using the sever drops, but they would still have their original ATP and ATA, making them worthless outside of Very Hard mode.

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Re: Server Drop Chart

Post  Treamcaster on Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:20 pm

Congratulations, I will be back when this gets implemented. Razz

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Re: Server Drop Chart

Post  Lee on Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:23 pm

For simplicity with server side drops, the leader of the room should set the id and it should be fixed as it is, even if they leave and the next leader has a new id, it's how bb should actually work, it prevents bugs with all kinds of random shit.

Btw you know multiple server side lists could be used if blue crab was smart enough to enable that via a command switch, /sdrops 1 etc.

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